materials (notes, etc..) available online + he actually TEACHES well!

This guy is a great teacher don't bash him if you're just another slacker...tons of extra credit to get and if you are willing you can learn a lot from this guy he is REALLY smart

Nice teacher! Tests are not very hard if you go through the material a lot.

Good teacher...hes not hard at all if you review over his notes. I love the whole computer thing with his teaching! He has a lot of extra credit and that helps if your not that good at math. Don't be lazy or else you will fail, all it takes is some study

Great teacher, a lot of credits to make up for the test. The tools he uses is great, no need for those math tutor. I highly recomended if you are planning to take Pre-calc, calc I & II you must take his classes and I recomend to buy the software.

If you are tired of being a slacker and want to become a student rather than just a school attendant then take his classes. You must be intelligent and a good listener. Not for children! Work required.

This guy IS a great teacher, DON'T BASH HIM if you're just another SLACKER!!!...tons of extra credit to get and if you are willing you can learn a lot from this guy, he is REALLY smart

Dr. Lewin was an amaizing teacher! I hated math all through highschool and after taking his class, i honestly enjoyed the subject. If you are willing to study you will understand the math and do well in higher classes. He gives tons of extra credit!

Great teacher, review notes and re-write them until you understand and do without looking at them, promise you'll do great! I hated math before I took his class...hard for those that don't like to work and want their tutors to do their job.

Corny guy but in a good way. Makes silly jokes but in a good way. Straight to the point and no text book required. Take dat, take dat, take dat.

Corny but funny jokes. He is a bit hard to learn math from if you're used to reading a text book and memorizing equations. Lewin demands that you actually teach yourself math. It's an easy A as long as you are willing to work for it and you will learn math not formulas. Different teaching style.

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Lewin is insane. He knows Calc for sure though.

Here's this thing with Lewin; you love him or hate him. I loved him. No note taking, no books, no homework, extra credit opportunities. He makes pre-calc and calc seem so easy that a 4th grader could learn it. As long as you pay attention in class, the class requires no outside effort. Don't pay attention, you'll fail.

Like was stated before, Proffesor Lewin is either loved or hated. He gives you the option of heqaring the lecture at your own leisure becaue he records all of his classes both visually and audibley. Overall a pretty easy class and the grading cureve is bar none. A=85+ B=70+ C=55+ D=40+ Cheers mate

I absolutely loved Dr. Lewin! Very nice - goes off subject w/ stories, but very funny! dedicated to his students, and encourages everyone to email him w/ problems and he will help you work them; he even gives out his home phone #! All u have to do is show up, pay attention and show ur trying w/ an occasional email. if he sees ur trying ur in!

Take this teacher for precalc, you dont have to buy a book cause he records his lessons on a cd that you watch, very helpful and not attendance policy

Great teacher! Explains every detail. Gives plenty of extra credit. He wants you to succeed.

I have never done well in math and considering that Dr. Lewin didn't allow note taking, I figured I was toast this go around as well. But his teaching is wonderful to me, and he's a very fair grader on his tests. He really prepares you for other math classes if you will use the skills he teaches you (ie using grammar to express yourself on tests).

I've taken more than 2 classes w/ Lewin. If you want to understand the material (not just get a grade and get out), this is your professor. He's picky about language, but for good reason. His examples & HW are SO well motivated things read like a story. A professor of this caliber at KSU? If I never took his classes I wouldn't have believed it.

this is the best teacher you are going to have in college. he is the best. he will help you no mater what. he will not just teach you yo do math but to be a better student. all you need is a 85 to get an A in his class.

I thought he was excellent! I guess it's either love or hate with him. I ran into some people on campus that told me they had bad experiences in his classes, and I couldn't believe it. I personally liked his teaching style. He is not one who suffers fools gladly, but he will definitely meet you halfway if you're putting the effort into it.

Dr. Lewin is without a doubt one of the best professors at KSU. His teaching style takes a little getting used to but if you listen and follow instructions you will Ace his class with ease and learn a lot along the way. he really makes math as easy and entertaining as math can get. His passion for the subject is outstanding.

Knowledgeable and caring professor. Had no problem helping me skip calc II. Also, while some students complain about his essay-style tests, I think it is a successful way to integrate calculus with everyday life as much as can be done. Besides, you're college students. If you can't handle reading a few sentences...then you need to give up.

He turned out to be a fair teacher. It takes a while to get used to him but he helps you out alot. He cares about his students and thier understanding of the course. I did bad on all the test in the class because i didnt get him at first but he passed me with an A becuase he allows you to prove yourself on the final

Prof Lewin knows his stuff and I enjoyed his class. He made math make sense. You need to study the material to make an A. You can score above a 100 on the tests, so there is an oppertunity to bring up you grades. No use of calculators though but he doesnt use numbers you cant easily solve on your own. I would suggest taking him if you enjoy math. H

By far the best math professor I have ever had. He will actually explain what the math means, rather than memorizing formulas. If you actually want to learn something, take Lewin. He is quite funny, if you are able to understand non-American wit (and a bit of sarasm). If you try at all, you will do very well. He makes it very easy for you.

I really enjoyed his class. If you like math, take him!!

I have to agree with some people here. Dr.Lewin does make math make sense.

Dr. Lewin teaches math how it should be taught. He teaches you how math works and not to memorize formulas but rather how to derive them. I would take him again in a minute. Come to class, get the cd, and do the problems he assigns and you will make an A. Read his page and his survival guide. Best math teacher I have ever had, he makes math easy

Professor Lewin is a great professor, and unlike other professors I have had.. he can actually teach. I hate the way he grades so carefully (like misusing the equal sign), but you can't really complain if an 85 or higher is considered an A. I would recommend him if you actually want to learn math.

I enjoy taking this class I have a better understanding of maths, if you follow his instructions you should do well. This is college and if you expect everything class to be a walk in the park then you are in for a rude awakening. I would take this professor again. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!!!

If you think this professor is the "WORST" ever, then you're probably a pretty bad student. He has all the credibility he needs to teach this material by the method he does. The most impacting professor I've come across.

Lewin is a true COLLEGE math professor. I was one of those students who thought it would be a walk in the park since I'm Math-minded; It's not that simple. If you want an A you've got to UNDERSTAND the concepts. His study guide is a replica of the exams and his grading scale is forgiving. I didn't enjoy him at the time, but I learned a Lot.

He is a very different teacher. Many reviews here are lower classes. If you haven't LEARNED math verbatim ie trig functions this class will tear you apart. He has lots of comp programs to help. But unless you are adamant about math or enjoy major studying this class probably is to hard for most.Math Lab Tutors couldn't solve his problems at all.

I would not recommend him, or at least advise you have a fairly light load if you do. You dont really get alot of info out of the lecture most of it comes from re-writing the notes he gives. I would advise those with attention problems to avoid this class. He's not bad but his system is different,and cant be taken lightly, its also not for everyone

There are alot of negative reviews for Dr. Lewin on here, I will say this. You either love him or hate him, for me he was extremely helpful and he is brilliant. He has forgotten more math than most professors know. I love his programs, MYMATHLAB sucks, period. If you sit up front and listen, do what he tells you, and try you will make an A.

I had Dr. Lewin for pre-cal, cal I and cal II. He's an excellent professor. If you want an A, you have to study and make sure you understand the concepts. His philosophy of teaching is different from most professors. He doesn't teach you to memorize the formula, but actually teaches you how to derive it.

He is a great professor, but his style is totally different. He has a curve which makes getting a good grade possible, but you have to study the material. There's also no book, there's helpful software instead. I've taken him for Pre-calc & Im taking him for Calc I as well.

It doesn't sound good when a professor disparages his departmental colleagues' teaching styles in front of students. Also, it would stand to reason that if his instructional methodology is so original; he should be tenured faculty at the University of Chicago rather than Kennesaw State. This man wants to be a big fish in a little pond.

I paniced at first at his unusual teaching style (you can't take notes) but it's pretty easy to do well if you show up for the lectures and pay attention. And he is extremely approachable and friendly. He will literally spend all day explaining something to you until you get it. TAKE HIM! Best professor I've ever had!

He is amazing! Don't listen to what some of these people say. They're just upset that you can't be a slacker through the class. If you want to actually learn and understand the math, take him. He will set you up so you do well in every math class after his. If you struggle, he will help you. 85 for an A, 70 for a B!!!

He definitely isn't the right professor for everyone. If you want to do well in his class you must use his software, because there are somethings that are on his software that he doesn't fully go over in class. I would recommend him to a math major or someone who is going to pursue higher math classes like calc 2 and beyond, but not really for ever

I loved this class! Prof Lewin does have a very different approach to teaching math however you will understand math better than you ever have before. You do have to attend class and there is some work outside of class. He is helpful if you are having trouble. His grading is beyond reasonable, A=85-100,B=70-85 and his test are very fair!

Man one of the best professor I have ever had. He has the ability to inspire you. He teaches Math in a very different way and will really get you prepared for Calculus. If you study you will do well. According to him you do not have to be a math person to well in his class. Tests are very reasonable and he makes you think.

Great teacher with a sense of humor. His grading system is unique and is very fair. His tests help you LEARN the material without making you memorize a ton of formulas. I would take him again for sure.

response to 12/06/10 posting: He does give credit in accordance to the accuracy and depth in which you explain a test question. I have received plenty of partial credit. You have a choice of material you want to explain on test. I find it quite difficult to get lower than an A. Uses his own approved material. $70 for VCT vs $200 textbook.

He is a great teacher. His grading system makes you able to recieve an A if you do the work. He doesn't give busy work. He also recognizes who works hard. I recieved an A on a test, then got sick & had to have surgery. I missed the final b/c of this & he still gave me an A. I valued his compassion.

Best teacher ever!!! You will learn so much!

Dr. Lewin is amazing! He is so extremely helpful if you ever need anything just run to his office or email him and he will get back to you. All you need is an 85 in the class to get an A. Two tests and final, if you get an A on the final, you get an A in the class. DO YOUR WORK!

Very knowledgeable in his teachings. If you study hard his class is passable. However, he does not treat individuals with respect. He thinks he right on everything and if you try to leave early for any reason he will yell at you. He insists that he is in charge and you will do as he says when in his classroom.

Its simple, he is brilliant. He is the only actual professor that I have had. He teaches you not to memorize but to learn and understand. If you actually want to learn and try take him for all maths. Do NOT take him if you want a lay back, lazy class.

I love Dr Lewin. He is the best math prof I have had yet. Like others said, he doesn't want you to memorize, but to understand. He is lenient on the grading scale. Points earned on quizzes are applied to your tests, which can really boost a bad test score. Not an easy class, but not hard. Treat him with a little respect, and he gives it back.

I had no trouble getting an A in his class. My only problem with him was on the day of my 2nd test, my sugar was running low (diabetic), so that affected my performance. He wrote a very sarcastic remark on the last page, implying I wasn't doing the work. On the final, I wrote enough to score 60 points (only needed 15 to get an A).

No Book! Best teacher I have ever had in any major! He really knows his material. 85 is an A in his class. 2 tests one final that's it, but if you make an A on the final you can make an A in the class. His tests have about 80 points on them, but you only need 32 to make a 100 on the test, so you get to choose what you get tested on. Very easy A+++.

I've taken him for Pre-Cal and Calc I. I'm taking him for Calc II Next semester. I refuse to take any other professor. I enjoy his teaching style and grading scale. If you failed, it's because you didn't work on the practice problems! It's so easy to slack off in that class. You'll easily get an A if I keep up with the "HW"

You will get an A if you work on the Exam Preview. He releases the preview a week in advanced. If you failed, it's because you didn't work on the preview. PERIOD. The preview is pretty much copied and pasted onto the exam. He won't surprise you with problems he doesn't detailed solutions for on his VCT software of in lecture take home notes(CD).

I had him for both Precalc and Calc 1. This guy is great! He actually teaches math. Some people have trouble with his tests because they either don't study or they're not good at math. Nobody should complain about this prof. He offers extra credit for every test and his grading scale is great. I mean come on an 85% is an A in his class!

I love this class! He records the lectures and burns them onto a cd that you get after every class. He gives previews to the tests and if you do them you'll do great. He explains the material so you understand it, not just memorization. Definitely worth taking. He has a refreshing style of teaching.

I took him for Pre-calc & Calc I. I think he's a great professor. He doesn't teach you useless info, but the principals you'll need for more advanced math. An 85+ is an A. A 70+ is a B. He gives you the opportunity to make a good grade, but you have to work hard. Calculus is not easy, but I'm glad I took him for it.

Dr. Lewin has been teaching for 40+ years, so he knows what you need to move forward with more advanced courses. If you are a math major, he is definitely the one to take to prepare you. He does expect precision on tests, but that will prepare you for future classes. If you are just looking for an easy A without much work, you want someone else.

Dr. Lewin is a very good teacher. If I could have class with him again, i would just make sure that I do good in midterms because the final is much harder!

Before taking this class, I was scared, as I have heard a lot of mixed reviews about Lewin. But the class itself is not so bad. Just show up, send him stuff weekly, and practice, practice, practice for some of the material. You don't have to do great on all the material, just some. If you show him you are truly trying, you will pass.

Lewin provides you with everything you need. He is willing to help you with any and all questions. Downside is that you have to learn how to use his program, but with a teacher who is there 24/7 to answer questions, who cares? Use him if you want lists of help and the lectures/notes handed to you.

Had him for Real. He's extremely strict about language of proofs, so pay attention. Gives U twice as much points on test than you need so U can pick problems ur comfortable with. Replaces lowest test with final. Extremely eager to help - email at any time of night and he responds quickly. A bit odd, but a very passionate teacher. No textbook.

doesn't allow notes, but records every lecture. super easy. you don't have to be good at math to get an A in this class. lets you make up to 200 points every test. no reason for a single person to fail. occasional quizzes that are used as bonus for the test. his jokes get old, but you're there for the course, not to be entertained.

Excellent Teacher and very cool, interesting way of teaching and learning math. Very good teacher to take if you're a science major as he does an excellent job breaking down the process and understanding patterns to help strengthen your basic skills for the more advanced stuff later on.

Lewin is the most intelligent professor I've ever had. If you do the homework and not blow the class of you'll do well. He teaches in a way thats unique but extremely beneficial to understanding the origins of important concepts. Even if you're bad at math, the class is manageable. No homework so it's up to you to succeed. Pays off in long-run.

I disliked him at the beginning of the semester b/e of his nontraditional teaching style (no textbook, can't take notes, not much graded work), but if you study VMT, watch the DVDs and ask him for help when you ned it you will get an A. ALL test material comes from VMT and lecture. Basically, if you're a real student, take Lewin.

Go over everything he tells you to study. Don't expect to pass, if you study a week before exams. only need 32 out of 60 or 80 points to get an A+ on exam. Tip: It's better to know two chapters very well, than to know a little bit of all the lecture material. Know these two topics very well, proofs/examples, and you'll get an A.

Stresses that you do not take notes, which can be beneficial to many students. His tests contain questions from the lecture and study guide. His grading is unconventional. He does not really explain why you got a problem wrong. He uses horrendous software for the extra credit assignments. He's worth taking, but know that it isn't easy.

Absolutely the best professor that I have had! He wants his students to succeed and will help in any way possible. Records his lectures and works off of his own disk program. Thorough teaching method and ample opportunity to do well. Go to class, practice the material (no homework, but don't avoid the work), and you will do well.

Absolutely the best professor that I have had! He wants his students to succeed and will do whatever he can to help. Thorough teaching method with ample opportunity to do well. Go to class, practice the material (no hw, but do not avoid the work), and you will do well. No book, but requires a disk program for mathematical writing.

Professor Lewin is a great teacher!! He provides all the material necessary for you to succeed, you just need to work for it. He makes you understand math and not just memorize formulas. He provides video lectures for each class and the VCT provides more details lectures on each topic. 2 test and one final (no calculator and no notes)

I would NOT recommend taking this class over the summer. I ended up with an A but only after weeks of intense, non-stop studying. He is very particular about how he grades and will take off a lot of points for seemingly minor mistakes. He's nice, and help's there if you ask for it, just be prepared to work hard.

The people who say he is hard are the people who don't think he gives homework. You must work for the "A" but if you do the work the test are a piece of cake. Any true university student should take him else stay away.

The "students" giving poor ratings are the ones who did not follow the professor's well laid out program and failed to do the homework. If your maturity level is still in high-school, you will not do well. This is a course for true university students. If you study for the lectures instead of studying for the tests, you will get an A.

He provides all material necessary to pass his class. You will have 2 Test and one final. The final will cover your lowest midterm. He will ramble alot about how other teachers don't know how to teach math. He will provide recordings of each lecture and extra recordings on the cd you will buy. Test are tough! pretty much need to memorize material

His expectations are high and he is opinionated. "My way or the highway" kind of guy. I can't say hes a bad professor, but there are better. You shall receive no leniency as far as grading. I did horrible in the class but still came out saying, "He is not that bad".

warning! if you do not believe that you are headed to a career which requires an understanding of calculus (economics, engineering, physics, ect) then do not take this class. It is hard! HOWEVER; professor Lewin is possibly the best teacher of calc in the world. you will leave his class with a mastery of the material that you wont find elsewhere .

Professor Lewin has a very peculiar teaching style independent from most other math professors. He uses his own program to teach the material. Study it verbatim. This was THE hardest class I have ever taken, and I would undoubtably take it again. It changed my study habits and outlook on school in general. You will respect and thank him in the end.

Dr Lewin is the best instructor I have had all my life. Every single thing he teaches you in class and writes down, he records and you can access it at any time. No professor ever does that!Calc 2 anywhere is hard, so get over it. I think he does more proof of stuff, great for math majors, however, he somewhat ignore the physics aspect of calculus

If you don't have a strong math background, go elsewhere. He's a decent professor who cares about his students success but WILL make you work for it. His method of teaching is far different than any other professor i've encountered, and even after hours of studying, ( quite literally ) I still only made it out alive with a C.

Dr Lewin is the BEST professor you will ever have. The people here who give him bad rating are just too lazy to do the work and follow his advice. He provides you with everything you will need to succeed, but you will have to work for it. If you ask for help, he will go out of his way to help you succeed. He is an amazing professor.

Good professor, gives you a layout of the test at least a week before it. Would definitely take him again. Makes you buy a download a program called VCT,which is essentially the textbook, it was very helpful once I figured out how to use it and you have to use it or you'll probably fail.

Dr. Lewin is a great teacher. Shows a lot of tough love, but he definitely wants his students to succeed. Come to class, pay attention, and do as he says, and you will definitely pass. You will have to work for it, but it makes it that much more rewarding.

I took Professor Lewin and enjoyed his class. He had long, informational lectures, but they helped. His homework is listening to his lectures and rewriting the problems. You won't pass without doing this and going through his study guides. I got above a 100% in the class and was exempted from the final. Only need 32 points to get a 100 on his tests

He is the best math teacher I've ever had. He makes one learn and enjoy the process of learning. If you go for this class, be ready to work hard and the grade will follow.

If you consider yourself to not be good at math, please hear me out. Professor Lewin is an amazing instructor. He CARES about his students. He will go far and beyond to make sure you understand the material. He will Skype you and work out problems with you when you're stuck. Listen to him, work with him and you will succeed.

Dr. Lewin teaches the course and requires that you take no notes, just pay attention. All of the lectures are recorded and that in turn becomes the notes for the day. He grades hard, no credit unless correct. This dude is brilliant, one of the most intelligent professors out there. You will work hard, but you will know this material years from now.

Professor Lewin is by far NOT supposed to be a professor. He is an incredibly smart man who should be retired after his long campaign as a mathematician. He posts his lectures online and will NOT allow you to take notes in class. He grades hard and really expects you to KNOW the math. If you put the work in, you will be rewarded. Study out of class

Anyone who talks bad about this professor is lazy. He gives you EVERYTHING! There are no surprises on tests and the quizzes are just extra points, so they can't hurt you. I didn't buy his VCT thing, only used his notes and I got an A. It's also untrue that you can't take notes in class, he just suggests that you not use them to study.

A true mathematician. Absolutely brilliant, and very caring teacher. He is so easy to get help from; I've emailed him at 2 in the morning and gotten a quick response to my question. If you study how he tells you to, you will get well over a 100% in the class. Best professor I've ever had.

I went back to school after being out of college for 4 years, and my first class was with Dr. Lewin. I struggled on my first exam and nearly gave up. Dr. Lewin asked me to make an appointment to come see him. He figured out why I was struggling; it was because I had never truly learned how to study math. I finished the quarter with an A.

Amazing teacher, doesn't want you to take notes in class, but be sure to take notes on the video lectures outside of class. He gives really good study guides for the tests and if he sees you're trying he'll try to give you as many points as possible on the test. An excellent professor, he will help you understand calc like no one else.

His grade is made up of 2 exams and a final counts as 2 exam grades and also will replace your lowest exam grade if the final is better. His tests are 64-105 possible points and 32 points is a 100. He teaches VERY in depth about why and how you do problems. Do not study all the material but what you're good at and study it deeply and you'll be fine

Professor Lewin was actually one of the best Professors I've had. I did not regret taking him for Calc I. If you want to truly learn the material, then you will take him. Nothing beats good ole' practicing until you understand it. Homework is not required, however, practicing the homework and mastering the concepts will be your key to success.

Definitely not an easy teacher. If you're taking the course to take a credit steer clear, but if you want to learn "Mathematics" he's probably the best for the depth you have to learn the subjects. His use of technology is peculiar for sure, but otherwise inexpensive I think its 80$ for the software and if you use mac stay away.

Great professor, but gotta work pretty hard

If you study, it is easy to get good grades. He is generous in grading.

Lewin is the best math prof at KSU. You will be smart af after his class. These haters just don't like writing coherent English. Just explain your reasoning on your answers. If you do, his grading is VERY generous. A85-100, B70-85.. I ended up with a 130. Final answer doesn't even matter. Its all about your logic. If you want to lvl up, get Lewin

Lewin is nice and wants you to succeed. He will let you resubmit many times and give you the final grade as you correct based on his input. He only has 2 tests plus final, but he gives so many points it's mind boggling. Possible to get 150s on tests and over 200 on the final. Only 55 needed for a C. He requires exact verbiage, so grading is tough.

Dr. Lewin leans a good lad to me. His curves are generous and has a unique English personality. Youll need (need!) Windows or VMware Horizon (iPad/Mac) for lectures. His scoring is really hard, so read feedback to see precisely what he wants. Plus if you stick with him, it may payoff and can even exempt the final! I'm taking him again for Calc III.

You are only graded on 2 midterms and a final (all open note and you have several days to do them, no Lockdown).The quizzes are for extra credit for the exams. He grades on a point scale and adds any points from the quizzes to your tests. Furthermore, an 85 is an A in this class. Provides notes/recordings after each class.

He is honestly a pretty good professor he is test heavy but you can pass you just have to make sure u understand and focus on lecture problems. I failed miserably my first test and didn’t do too well on my second but still overall did well. Test are out of like 60 and u need like 32 for a 100.

It is really easy if you try to understand rather than memorize stuff. It is easy to skip because he records everything(but you will probably fail if you do), and he gives plenty of extra credit and I ended the classes with about a 117%. The exam reviews were much harder than the exams. He says some very controversial stuff but I find it funny.

If you want to be taught mathematics (ACTUAL MATHEMATICS) not that bs they give you in high school or from other lazy math professors, then take Lewin. That being said, he is a professor for math majors, engineers, or physics majors. The best math professor in the south. Taught by none other than Paul Erdos himself. You won't be disappointed

Do not take this professor if you just want the grade, this man actually teaches. A very funny guy too, he made all his material (free). He gets on tangents pretty often but is VERY caring. Only graded on 2 tests and the final. There's also quizzes that can only add points to the test (only need 32 points, test offers like 40-50) Do your homework.

Professor Lewin is one of if not the absolute best professors I have had at KSU. He is extremely caring and hilarious and gives students every opportunity to get help and ask questions. He is lecture heavy, his only homework is to review lecture material. He is extremely knowledgeable in math. Take him if you actually want to learn! NO ADDED COSTS!

Professor Lewin is a very enjoyable professor in that he has a very fun sense of humor and makes class very enjoyable. His material is not hard to understand, and his tests only cover a decent portion of the material rather then a large amount. However, be prepared to understand how he wants things written down as he is very harsh on that.

Amazing professor. Extremely wise and passionate. 350 words won't do him justice, but he really made me excited to learn math. There are only 3 tests but on each one you could gain more than 100% (max was 265% on the final). Also, the tests are very straightforward and not tricky. He doesn't tolerate slackers, explaining the negative reviews.

Take this professor if you actually want to learn the material and not just breeze through and get the credit for the class. All of the answers in the tests are in the notes. If you don't get an A in the class its because you are lazy. This professor made calc2 a breeze.

Prepare to put in the work - this class is no cakewalk. But if you engage with the material and use resources like Unstuck study AI, you'll walk away having genuinely learned a lot. The professor has high standards, but it's worth it.